What gives someone a reason to choose your drink over everything else on the shelf?
Paul Brennan and Stuart Wood, co-founders of Missouri Creative, join Stir’s Richard Thiardt and Jessica Bottomley to explore how drinks branding, packaging and format can help turn interest into trial. Across five tastings, we discuss making unfamiliar categories approachable, creating new drinking occasions, communicating premium value and giving people a reason to buy again.
On the tasting table:
• Proper Tipple, the Proper Job x Jiddler’s Tipple collaboration
• DREAMSAKE
• Poco Vino Pinot Grigio
• Kocktail Old Fashioned
• Jimmy’s Iced Cereal Milk
Plus: when disruptive design starts to look like everything else, why familiarity can be valuable, and how smaller formats can remove barriers to purchase.
Expect honest opinions, practical questions for drinks brands and some very enthusiastic reactions to an Old Fashioned. Slurp or Skip is Stir’s drinks series, exploring what new launches and changing drinking habits mean for brands building demand.
Transcript
00:00 | Introducing Missouri Creative
Hi, and welcome back to another episode of Slurp or Skip. Today Richard and I are joined by Missouri Creative. We have Stuart Wood and Paul Brennan, co-founders of Missouri Creative.
Today we're going to be trying drinks in lots of different packaging formats, primarily within alcohol, and then we have a cereal milk to finish.
Paul, Stuart, you co-founded Missouri Creative. Why did you set Missouri up, and what do you think you do differently to the rest of the market?
We set up about 13 years ago. One of the things we thought about at the time was how to get a bit closer to our clients. We'd come from big network agencies, part of WPP. We thought: how do we get closer to our clients and start to specialise in areas that we really love?
We talk about being in the serious business of pleasure. We like to work in the pleasure categories, so today should be a pleasurable experience.
We hope so.
Paul, how come you decided to go into business together? Had you worked together in the past?
First of all, Missouri's been around for 13 or 14 years. We've actually been working together for probably 20 years or more. He's my work wife.
Stuart's a 2D guy. I'm a 3D guy. During our time at our previous agency, we'd always worked together. We had one of those slightly drunken nights in a hotel somewhere and said: why don't we do this for ourselves?
The 2D and 3D go together so nicely in the kind of work that we do. It worked way back then and is still working to this day. That's why we started and why we fit together nicely.
For those who wouldn't know you, but may have seen some of your work, what are some of the most famous pieces of work you've done for clients?
We've done work for Jameson Irish Whiskey for probably about 10 years. A lot of the stuff you'll see in bars, retail and global travel retail, we've had a hand in.
Brands like Beefeater: we've done a lot of their brand world, their guidelines for communicating and their consumer engagement platforms. We've done a lot of work in that industry.
You probably can't walk up to a back bar anywhere in the world without us being able to point out probably 60% of the brands that we've had a hand in doing something for.
As we do, we sit there and actually count them. We've worked with them, we've worked with them. We order them, then we count them.
The longer I've been in drinks, I've always wished we had some sort of loyalty or discount card to say: "Oh, I work for those guys."
We try that. It doesn't always work.
You don't just work in drinks, though. We always talk about ourselves as a drinks agency, but you do food and other sectors.
We've worked in automotive, doing a ton of work with Honda over the years. We've also done lots of standard retail. When we first started our agency, we were doing a lot of work with Foot Locker across Europe. We did a big store for Snow+Rock.
Not just drinks, always quite a broad spectrum of different types of clients. Quite a bit in health, beauty and wellness: work with Aveda and Estée Lauder. We're pitching on a beauty brand in Shanghai. We've got a few things on, but that pleasure category is really what we're interested in.
I imagine you can borrow different elements from across categories. As you say, the motivations are often the same in terms of how you want to show up.
We show brands how to show up, basically. Whether you're in wellness, automotive, drinks, soft drinks or food, you've got to understand people's motivations, what makes them tick, what triggers action and what makes people pick it up and put it in the basket.
I'm quite excited about working out whether I'd pick one of these up and put it in my basket.
05:00 | Proper Tipple: does the collaboration tell a clear story?
That is the perfect segue. For today's episode, we're going to ask Paul and Stuart: would you put this in your basket? Would a consumer or the target audience pick this up? What do you think they're leaning into, and why have they made certain decisions?
First off, we're going to start with the beer. This is Proper Tipple, a collaboration between Proper Job IPA and Jiddler's Tipple.
We were talking about this before, but I wax lyrical, and Richard's probably going to roll his eyes, about how much I love the feel of these cans. You were saying this is actually quite a cost-effective way of doing it?
I believe so. We probably should have checked with our production people exactly what that substrate is called, but you see it a lot across the craft canned industry, even into canned wines. Uncommon use a similar substrate.
It's interesting because I didn't necessarily know that was a cheaper way to do it, but it feels far more premium.
It's quite tactile, isn't it? A lot of it is because it just feels different. All the really mass-produced stuff has that same sheen, that same feel. You pick this up and it feels different, so it feels a bit more interesting. It does cue craft, even from that tactile experience.
I'm a bit nervous about IPA. I have to admit it's not my favourite of the beer category.
That's okay. We always try to be objective with these things, but then there are some drinks we try where personal preference just reigns supreme.
Cheers, everybody.
I think it's interesting that Proper Job's done this. Obviously, a very traditional ale brand. They've tried to modernise. Craft beer's had its boom and it's now consolidating, no more so than we're seeing with BrewDog, albeit they've got different issues. What are you thinking?
I can tell you what he thinks. I'm a bit of a lager drinker, by the way, but first of all, on the nose, it's quite pleasant. It's got quite a nice fruity bouquet. Quite citrusy. That's quite nice, so let's have a go.
Too much going on in there. I like my beer to be a little bit simpler, personally. Again, I'm probably not the target audience for this.
I would agree with you. I'm not a huge beer drinker, full stop, certainly not IPA. It's got quite a pleasant taste when you first taste it, but I'm a bit of a session man. Whether it tastes nice in the first couple of sips is one thing, but if you're doing a whole pint, does the flavour become a bit too overwhelming? For me, it may do.
That said, most of the youngsters who work in our studio love this kind of beer.
It's all your Neck Oils from Beavertown, that kind of thing. For them, they're probably going to love it.
If we take it to the packaging, this is a traditional ale brand. For 2026, it's interesting that they're partnering with a craft beer brand. This feels like something from five to ten years ago.
I actually really like the artwork and design. I'm sure there's a bit of a story behind it, maybe taking more cues from Jiddler's Tipple. What do you think when you see that brand hierarchy? If you're a Proper Job fan, do you know it's Proper Job? If you're not a Proper Job fan, are you getting confused by what it might be?
I'm slightly confused by it, if I'm honest. I think this would probably fade into the background at a craft beer store. There's a vernacular around craft beer that's bright and colourful but doesn't say too much. I personally don't see the story.
They may have missed a slight opportunity to bring Proper Job and Jiddler's Tipple together in a more compelling way. They look like separate things. You have to spot the X in there. It feels a tad expected, actually.
Do you think that's because they're trying to meet in the middle of craft and heritage, then landing in a slight no man's land where it's hard to decide either way?
I think that's probably true. There's a sense that we've got a nice funky pattern and now let's pop ourselves on it, let's intercept that moment a little bit. What do you think?
When I go into the local store with tons of craft beer cans, they all look really pretty. Lots of nice patterns. You think: wow, it's like a little art installation. But I also think: why would I buy that one over that one?
I agree with Stu. You look at that and go: where's the story? For me, it's another pattern. Then they've done that thing you see quite a lot, which is a little white square where you put the logo in.
For me, it's not quite working hard enough to communicate why I should buy it. But they might not be talking to me, by the way.
The name does bring them together really well. I like your idea of combining the logos, because Proper Job has quite an identifiable logo. But a lot of brands don't like messing with their IP.
Encompassing all of that and the taste of it, is it a slurp or skip for you?
Personally, I'm firmly in the skip category.
I'm going to say skip as well.
I'm going to say skip as well.
I'm going to say slurp because I'm the nice guy. No, I actually like the taste of it. I think it's good. They've tried to do something, but maybe with a bit more fun it could be better.
If you saw that on the shelf as a fan of either, you might be interested to try it. It's probably not going to be in every supermarket with huge national listings. It's a little more for those in the know, maybe.
I agree there's potentially a lot more they could have done with the design. Maybe gone a bit bolder rather than just sticking the logos on top of each other. That's quite a big can and they're not saying an awful lot on it. I'm going to say slurp, but that's a majority skip, sadly.
Good collaborations should be one plus one equals three. This feels a bit like one plus one equals 1.5. It's almost decreased.
13:30 | DREAMSAKE: making an unfamiliar category easier to buy
The next one we have is DREAMSAKE. Are we sake drinkers?
I am a sake drinker. I've been to Tokyo a few times and love Japanese food. Those two things go hand in hand, so I've drunk lots of sake over the years. I'm a fan.
This is the one I'm most excited about trying.
Same as Paul, I love sake, but I couldn't name a sake brand. It's a little bit like olive oil. People don't necessarily remember brands. Bertolli, anyway.
I'd be interested to know what these guys want to do with it. Do they want this to be in Asian restaurants, Japanese restaurants, or are they trying to break into the mainstream? I think there's a massive opportunity to grow the sake category because no one knows anything about it. We're intrigued.
Let's have a go at it. What I find interesting is that whenever I've had sake in the past, and I'm still new to the category, every bottle I've seen or been given in a restaurant is very obviously Asian-focused.
With this, you have got the Asian style, but with DREAMSAKE at the front, it feels almost like you're leaning into wine territory. It just screams a premium drink rather than being too sake-first, which is good for bringing people into the category who haven't been already.
The image you sent us of the previous design: this one's been upgraded and looks much nicer. But the other one had some tasting notes on the front, which I think is quite a good idea. Everyone knows sake, but do they really know what it tastes like or what to expect? That's a good thing to do.
That said, there's something about this that looks more premium, more inviting. It's a pretty seductive label.
The only thing I would worry about slightly is, in a category where I don't understand much about sake, am I reading that as "dream sake", or am I reading "dream's sake"?
We just had yerba mate, which is like "yerba mate".
The packaging is a whole bunch better. It'll be interesting to see what they're trying to do with it and where they go with it. Is this trying to become a table sake? Like table wines were introduced in the UK back in the 70s. Now we've developed our palate for wine and look around the category. It'll be interesting to see what they want to do.
I always go for layperson tasting notes. On the nose, it smells like Fruit Salad sweets.
Now you suggest it, you start looking for it, don't you?
It's quite rice-forward. I've had the pleasure of trying this before at one of the trade shows we've been to. Either early in the year or possibly even last year. At the time, I remember it standing out so distinctly when there were so many different sake brands leaning into the Asian style. This really popped.
I quite like it. It's a good balance of dryness and a little sweetness. It's quite fruity on the nose.
Quite a lot of sweetness, actually, I think.
I've realised I've got quite a sweet palate. Even though I like dry wine, I like big fruit. It definitely has more fruitiness than most of the stuff I've had before.
That would be really nice, to your point about it being a table sake. I can imagine us all having a nice meal together and that being the pour.
You could imagine that. Something really salty would go nicely with this, cut through that sweetness.
It's a category that's ready to take off, isn't it? We see so much of people copying each other and doing the same thing. Something like this coming along, being slightly different enough to make it more interesting and engaging.
Any thoughts on the cutout where you've got the lettering? I think that's quite distinctive.
I really like it. This is definitely an upgrade on where they were before from a packaging perspective. The format's really nice as well: the shape of the bottle, the weight of the bottle. You can't get that on camera, but it's got a heft, doesn't it? Even the closure as well. They've gone to town on the details, which is great.
The cutout looks really nice because, with that natural colour of the liquid, the goldenness comes through nicely.
It's interesting they're talking about putting it in cocktails as well. I could imagine on-trade bartenders picking this up, seeing what they could do with it and introducing it into Asian-inspired cocktails. Probably a lot of opportunity for it.
Asian culture has probably never been more desirable or of interest in the West, particularly Korea with film, music and food. We've done a little around soju, which you're starting to see, like Jinro, the main brand that's starting to come out here.
Is it -196, the one in the can?
We've got one of those, actually, which is pretty good. A refreshing drink.
This is fun. Hopefully it'll bring more people in. It feels less intimidating whilst still feeling premium. If you brought this to a dinner party with friends who value new and interesting food and drink, it's a good talking point.
I know the founder's going to watch this. Is there anything you'd suggest that could improve it next time they go for a packaging update?
Just make sure that "sake" is clearly pulled out, as opposed to "dream's sake". But I think it looks great. What an opportunity to be a brand in a category that hasn't really developed, to be the trailblazer at the forefront of this.
There's enough Japanese semiotics, cues and codes in there without it being cliché or a little appropriated.
Playing devil's advocate for a second, do we think sake not being super obvious is necessarily a problem? It's that fine line of consumers being educated. If they pick it up and think it looks cool, they can see lettering that suggests it's Asian. It looks nice, so they're going to take it, and it tastes good.
What's the price point of this?
About £28 to £30.
The question is: am I going to pick this up over a really good £28 or £30 bottle of white wine? I need to know what it is at that point. Make it easier to buy, because it's a great product and great packaging.
As you said, it's going to be a fun thing to take to a dinner party or around to a friend's, popping it on the table. If you're eating Asian food specifically, you probably wouldn't match it with anything else, I wouldn't have thought.
That's a very valid point. That's probably where the wine industry is falling down slightly, because younger consumers are having to commit to spending, maybe not as much as £28 or £30. It's probably why RTDs are doing so well, because it's cheap and quick.
To your point, Paul, maybe some tasting notes, unless people know what to expect. I bought some coffee this morning and it was chocolate, hazelnut and something else. So it's like: I get it now. Another one was, I think, Coca-Cola. I thought: I'll skip that one.
The other thing, maybe at point of sale, is that it needs something to nudge people about the occasion. What occasion am I buying this for? Some little nudge. We all eat Asian-inspired food once a week, so a little nudge as to when you should drink it and why it's good for that.
I feel like I know the answer to this. Slurp or skip?
I'm slurping away. I like it.
Slurp for me also.
Triple slurp.
Make it a full house. I'm going to keep slurping.
24:00 | Poco Vino: smaller bottles and removing barriers to wine
Next up, we have Poco Vino, which, let's be honest, is a small bottle of wine. It's a Pinot Grigio. I'm sure we've all had Pinot Grigio at some point in our lives, so we're not thinking too much about the liquid here.
This is representative of current trends in terms of people drinking less. Some people are not drinking at all. Wine has always come in one format. More recently in cans as well, but broadly speaking, a glass bottle.
We think this is really interesting because a lot of people won't drink wine because they feel obliged to drink the whole bottle within a couple of days. That's why, in sparkling, you've got things like Coravin that can preserve the wine for a bit longer. But why do we need all those gadgets and gizmos? Could we serve it in smaller packaging that's more of a single-serve size?
Do you think they're trying to do at-home consumption or on-the-go consumption?
When we've spoken to these guys in the past, they were predominantly focused on the on-trade. However, I now know this has a Sainsbury's listing because it was delivered by the lovely Sainsbury's van earlier this week. They are going more into consumer, and that, to me, is where it makes most sense.
In the on-trade, you can have carafes. You're more likely to be sharing a bottle, less likely to be eating on your own, that kind of thing.
I find the on-trade focus quite jarring. I think it's about 187ml, which is slightly over a medium-sized glass. You would just pour it in, unless it's part of the theatre of having it. It feels like a bit of a waste, sustainably, to serve that in the on-trade.
What I find quite cool is that it's single-serve, very convenient, you can take it out when you want. Where we saw them lined up together, it's almost reminiscent of Nespresso coffee. You can see them all on the side.
I saw them lined up together. What I like is that when you see those different colours, before you get into which grape and all that, they look really nice as a set. It creates that instant browsability. Do I like that one? Do I like that one?
You could try a few quite easily. I can imagine a bunch of people: "I'll try this one, you try that one. Let's have a little chat about it." Whereas if you're buying a full bottle, it's a different discussion.
It also takes the snobbery out of wine. Everyone's sometimes a bit scared because they don't know so much about the grape, a bit scared to say what they like and don't like. They've lowered the barrier to entry, which is interesting.
Price point, probably a little above a can but obviously below a big bottle. It's easy to shop. They've made this brand pretty easy to shop.
If we're all sitting around, some of us being Sauvignon drinkers and others Chardonnay, you can have a different type for everybody. I'm a big wine drinker, maybe more so than beer. Wine has been quite traditional and almost made consumers come into its world, whereas stuff like this is more: we're going to meet the consumer where they are.
You can imagine them chucked in a tote bag and someone's going off to a picnic or an hour-long train journey. It's almost got RTD vibes without cheapening itself.
They don't want people swigging from the bottle, but it's probably going to happen. At that size, it will.
It looks cool. You can see people asking about it. When it's on shelf, it gives really great standout and visibility, so I hope it does well for them.
We've seen in recent news that Diageo has launched mid-strengths of its core spirit products. There's this move to mid-strength, but does it need to be mid-strength, or do we just decrease the volume we're consuming on a specific occasion?
What do you think of the smell and taste? I haven't chugged mine, I just didn't pour very well in evening it out.
It's been a tough week.
What's the price point on this one?
What would you pay for it?
Good question. Good flip. That's just short of a large glass. You're probably looking at £8 or £9, something like that.
A large glass is 250ml.
What would you think in retail?
In a pub, yes. In retail, it's got to be considerably less. I'd say £6.
£4.50 or £5.
In retail? You can get a whole bottle.
I think it's got to be about £3.50, something like that.
£3.25.
We're a bit classy, you see, Jess.
I was like: I'd probably pay £6 for it.
This is a great anecdote. She walked into her local corner shop and was amazed. We were looking for Blue Raspberry Echo Falls, which did really well for this show, and Jess had to keep going in being like: "It's not for me. I don't drink this stuff."
Because she hadn't been in there before, she's like: "They've got Louis Latour." I was like: "Yes, because you live in Fulham. No wonder your corner shop's got Louis."
One of our girls walked into a store recently, picked it up and put it onto our group chat, the blue Echo Falls. It's bizarre, but that's probably for another day. That episode's not out yet, is it?
It's coming out. We'll wait and see what you think, but it serves a purpose for certain people.
For me, this tastes like Pinot, smells like Pinot. Very easy to drink.
Looks like Pinot, smells like Pinot, drinks like Pinot. It's Pinot Poco Vino.
Slurp or skip?
I don't mind Pinot Grigio. I would slurp. Format-wise, I think it's interesting. Paul's point is a great one: let's put four or five of them out and do a little tasting. That would be interesting.
Should they come out with bigger formats later, once you've found the one you really like? It might be interesting as a lead-on to a bigger purchase.
For me, it's a slurp. It's cheap, quite stylish and has no snobbery. I like the whole thing.
I very much echo what you've said. It's a really cool innovation for wine, and if it gets more people drinking wine and thinking differently, a big slurp for me.
Agreed. Slurp for me. We violently agree.
33:00 | Kocktail Old Fashioned: making convenience feel premium
The penultimate one we have here is an Old Fashioned from Kocktail, with a K. I'm going to let you experience the opening. It does have advice on the side about how to do it.
Presumably, just do a bit of that and a bit of that. Done.
Relatively easy to do. These are designed to be kept as glasses afterwards.
There you go. Thank you.
We keep things classy here, as you can see.
An Old Fashioned is my absolute all-time favourite cocktail. I've got such high hopes, and I really hope Elijah Craig lives up to it.
Which is the original bourbon, I think, Elijah Craig.
First of all, the packaging's great. It looked nice when we saw it on the table. When you see that lid with the little bit on the side, you know what to do with it. It communicates that.
When you get it in the hand, it's got these lovely little ribs around the bottom of the glass. It's mimicking what would happen if you were in a nice bar getting one served. They've done a lovely job there.
As we were talking about before, it's too good to throw away. You're going to keep it and maybe drink out of it later. The packaging is really lovely. I'm sure Stuart will speak about the graphics, but there's a nice, simple modernity about the way the 2D works on there as well. From a touch perspective, they've done a really nice job.
I've seen these guys everywhere recently. I just hope the promise lives up to the expectation.
You know what? It does as well. It's really good.
Gosh, that's cracking.
It's good, isn't it?
That's really good. It smells like a bar-strength Old Fashioned.
It's got a slight viscosity to it. It's really nice. Wow.
I think I'm going to find quite a few of these knocking around next to my Gü pots at home.
Gü's a great analogy. I've kept quite a lot of my Gü pots over the years and used them for all sorts of purposes.
Candles.
They've kept it quite simple. Elijah Craig bourbon, demerara, bitters and just a little water. It tastes great to me.
It's really good. That's bartender quality, so it's really nice to see.
Emil from the brand sent these to us. They have done pre-batched cocktails in a larger format before, but they've found a winner because it's already sold out on their website. They also do Negronis and Margaritas. We just thought, we're big Old Fashioned lovers, to be honest, so it would go really nicely.
It's nice to see some innovation in the packaging. RTDs are booming at the moment, but everyone's just putting them in a can.
This is a real step up from MOTH, isn't it? This feels like next level. MOTH cocktails are great, nothing wrong with them at all, they're great quality. But there's something about that.
It's strange how it plays a trick on the mind, drinking it out of glass. That makes it feel like a more premium experience.
A massive difference. It changes the language of it straight away.
I'm a huge believer that the glass makes the drink. The same with tea and coffee. Coffee out of a paper cup versus a proper mug, or glass even for tea. I love glass tea.
And great ice.
You haven't even got great ice.
We haven't got great ice. You've got really bad ice and it still works really well.
The really good ice, the big chunky cube, arguably wouldn't fit in here.
I've just learned that I thought if you used filtered or mineral water you got nice clear ice. It's actually how you freeze it so all the bubbles disappear. That ice machine we just bought is completely redundant now.
There's something quite nice about giving you the RTD but allowing you to do the final twists yourself. Add your garnish and your ice. Convenience meets...
I'm going to try that as well. The sticker comes off nicely. I wanted to see how easily that comes off. I've not got to put that in the dishwasher and then hack away.
Look at that. That's a really cute thing. That's a nice piece of design.
I used to hate it with CDs or DVDs when you tried to take the price sticker off and it wouldn't come off clean. It used to leave that residue. It feels like they've really thought about it.
It's everywhere, and for good reason. It's great. I can see supermarkets being like: we have to get a little bit of this. At the moment, I think it's DTC, but I don't think it'll take long.
That's absolutely delicious. Very quaffable, actually.
Dangerously quaffable. It's very good. 20% as well.
I love how on the back it says: "Once open, drink within 24 hours," as if anyone wouldn't.
Who's having half of this?
Within 24 seconds, potentially.
It's great. Nice packaging. Beautiful. Great job. Slurp or skip? Do we even need to ask?
I think I'll slurp, if I'm pushed.
I think I might slurp again.
Slurp all the way.
Big slurp. I think it's my favourite slurp thus far.
100%, the best thing we've drunk today. Easy slurp.
It could be my best thing today, although I am a fan of milk-based anything, so I'm intrigued. My favourite Old Fashioned ever is a milk-washed Old Fashioned, which was unbelievable. We'll see.
Well done, Kocktail. You've done an amazing job.
40:30 | Jimmy's Iced Cereal Milk: nostalgia, occasions and repeat purchase
Last but not least, we have Jimmy's Iced Cereal Milk. I'm a big fan of milkshakes, chocolate milk, all these things. This really caught my eye.
Sadly, and I'm going to ask you as the branding and packaging wizards, as it arrived, it had got a bit of condensation where it had been in the delivery van. You'll notice the label has absorbed a lot of that moisture. It's slightly tainted how nice the packaging looked originally.
This is the best bit left after the cereal, which we all know is my favourite. Cinnamon Grahams, now Curiously Cinnamon. Drinking the milk at the end is the best bit ever.
I'm expecting we're going to get that nice cornstarchy, maizey taste, with the sweetness as well. What are your first thoughts on the packaging? Do you immediately get what they're trying to do in terms of what it is?
You totally get it. I buy Jimmy's canned coffee, so it's a brand I buy weekly. Of course I recognise it. The bottle as it is, seeing the slightly off-coloured milk inside, has that nice old-fashioned pint-of-milk look. There's a nice retro comfort thing going on. For me, it's communicating what it needs to communicate.
I agree. It's nostalgic and feels indulgent. We did packaging work for PepsiCo treats, and we're probably playing into some of the same nostalgic insights as this. It feels 50s. It's Katz's Deli. You could almost have a missing person on the side, like those old milk bottles.
It's fun. It's not something I would personally buy, but it's tapping into a nostalgic era of better days in a world of uncertainty. You can rely on your cereal milk.
I have heard of other cereal milks. I'm wondering, as an innovation, do I put it in the same bucket as squeezy cheese? One of those things that's quite nice, but do I need it? I haven't tasted it yet, so let's see.
Interestingly, at least 10, maybe 15 years ago, here in Shoreditch they had the Cereal Killer Cafe. You could get any flavour of cereal and just eat cereal. There is that nostalgic element, reliving our youth. As you said, in this era, I can see why we're doing it. Nostalgia is selling.
But I agree with you. When would you have it? Why would you have it? Who's having it? They've communicated everything right in the brand and packaging, but then what's the brand doing? Where would you do it? Are you drinking it neat? Are you putting it in your coffee?
I can't remember where I read this, but I think they're trying to be in the milkshake category and moving away slightly from coffee. That's quite a bold or very different way of moving into it. Leaning on the nostalgia cues, as you mentioned, Stu.
I really like it. I don't necessarily know whether I would pick it up. If I was in a shop, you'd go: that's interesting, that's fun. Maybe someone in my family would like it. I'd pick it up. It's then: would I buy it again? Because it's a treat thing, isn't it? Like chocolate milk.
Is it good for you, or is it more of a treat?
Can't be, surely.
If you saw it on the shelf, it communicates to you in seconds what it is. That's a good thing.
I've actually already tried it. It tastes exactly like how I remember. I used to drink and love Nesquik, Coco Pops. It's almost a merger of the two, obviously without the chocolate.
To me, it tastes like cornflake milk. I wish it had a little bit more going on. The cereal flavour could be more intense. It feels like I've slurped down my cornflakes really quickly and it's that bit at the end, rather than Frosties when you've had them in there for too long.
I was going to add that it doesn't taste as good as the milk left over from my Crunchy Nut Corn Flakes.
I wonder, and I don't know why I'm playing devil's advocate so much today, whether the intensity of that little bit left is because you're only having a little amount. Jimmy's idea is to have people drinking a lot of it. Maybe if it was that intense, it would be too much. Possibly.
I don't know when I'd drink it or what I'd drink it with. I'm not a big at-home milkshake person, so maybe it's not for me. But I don't know when I'd pick this up over a glass of normal milk.
My question is: who's the target audience? We have the nostalgia of having cereal when we were younger. Kids are having cereal now. Do you put it on cereal? Do you go double cereal?
Double, double. I don't want a single cereal. I want to go double cereal on this.
Cereal inception. Cereal on cereal.
I'm not sure who it's targeting, actually.
I'm not sure either. I kind of wish we'd tasted the other one. For me, sadly, it doesn't deliver on what it looks like and the nostalgia. It's got an almost impossible task because it's dealing with my memories and nostalgia. We always remember things as better than they probably ever were, in hindsight. Rose-tinted glasses.
Branding and packaging-wise, it looks sick. I'd buy it once, but then I might not buy it again, sadly.
That's an interesting point. Scent is one of the oldest memories. On the nose, it does take me back. The aroma is really good. It's almost like picking up my cereal, about to slurp it in front of the TV on a Saturday morning. But when I taste it, I'm a bit like...
Maybe that's because there's no cereal.
Maybe that's because there's no toy.
If it was successful, you could see them doing it with different brands. It could become a collaboration thing.
It's a nice one to end on because it could go either way for me. For you?
I'm going to skip, and I'm going to continue slurping.
For me, the packaging's great. It does what it's supposed to, but I'm going to skip.
I'm going to skip too, because I'm not sure yet who it's aimed at and the longevity of it. Linked to that, where our PR and marketing hats come on, how are you cementing it through partnerships or getting people to adopt it through culture? That's probably how it'll do well, but right now it's probably a skip.
Not to do a really long answer, but cereal, for me and my best mate, is one of those things where, now we're adults, we might have a weekend where we sit on the sofa, play computer games and eat giant bowls of cereal. A bit like Forgetting Sarah Marshall.
This is a very sad picture.
I'd love to have more of those moments. It's trying to bring back that nostalgia without giving me the full experience. For that reason, I'm really sad that I'm also going to skip it. But I like that they're doing innovative things with milk.
Potential. And it's fun.
Weirdly, in a smaller format it could work better. Like a single-serve format. No one's drinking 500ml in one go, right?
50:30 | When disruption becomes wallpaper
One question I wanted to ask was, from a design and branding perspective, we see so much about wanting to stand out. All of these, particularly the Poco Vino and the Kocktail, are disruptive.
At what point does everything become disruptive, so it's almost like wallpaper and it's hard to pick something out?
I'd revert to what I was talking about earlier with craft beer cans. They were disruptive at the time. Rather than having crests, logos and the usual things, they all went for wallpapers and art. You see a wall of disruption, and almost the ones standing out are the regular beer brands. That's when it becomes too disruptive.
That's because it's disruption, but there's lots of copycat disruption.
It's a tough one because we're strange creatures. At times, we want to be jolted out of the ordinary. We seek novelty, but we also seek comfort and reassurance. You see a red star on a green can, or a dark green can with a little beautiful serif type, and you know where you are. In a world of flux, that familiarity is reassuring.
That said, doing things in different formats: a familiar flavour, Pinot Grigio, no great shakes, not that challenging, but the format is interesting disruption. Kocktail: how many times have you drunk an Old Fashioned? Fine. Format: disruptive.
It doesn't mean everything has to do the same job. You can look at different parts of your brand mix and think: where am I going to lean into category codes, and where am I going to push against them?
Understanding that still comes down to things we've been talking about. When do you want to drink it? What's the occasion? Who's it for? What's your target audience? Where are they consuming it? That's where you can start to play with leaning in or disrupting.
When we think about the briefs we all get, the word "disruption" appears everywhere. We want to be disruptive. Sometimes, for a consumer walking around a store, disruption everywhere is probably a pain in the arse. A better word is probably "appropriateness". What's appropriate for the shopper, the product, the occasion? But "appropriate" isn't a very sexy word, is it?
We always talk about this with beer. We saw the craft beer boom. Now it's all about what they call classic lagers or continental lagers. They're flying again because it's so expensive, we want familiarity.
The number of times I've bought a craft beer for £7 and it's horrendous because I had no idea what it was going to taste like. I'm much happier to pay £6 for a Heineken or a Stella because I know exactly what it's going to taste like wherever I am in the world.
We often talk about being as familiar as you need to be, but as different as you dare. You work out where you need to push. That's probably the answer. It depends on where you're playing.
54:30 | What's next for drinks packaging?
I've got one more question. In terms of future thinking, are there any particular design codes or trends you're expecting to see in the next three to five years?
That's a big question because it depends on the category and where you're playing. This is potentially a signal of where a certain part of the market is going: making the RTD, which in some cases is the only part of the booze industry actually making some money, more premium. Where can we premiumise?
But for every trend, there's a countertrend. The booze industry has spent 10 or 15 years trying to premiumise. Now we've got a cost-of-living crisis and a Gen Z population who I believe still drink as much, but sometimes can't afford to spend on the things we want them to spend on. They're going to be trading down.
Look at the rise of BuzzBallz.
We considered having one on today.
They're fun. When we walk through Shoreditch on a Monday morning, everyone's been drinking them. It's covered everywhere. But that's not nice design. It's not premiumisation, but it's appropriate, to Paul's point.
We'll probably see two countertrends happening. You'll see more of this type of thing, which MOTH probably kicked off. And you'll start seeing movement down from premium and super-premium spirits into more affordable, interesting and smaller formats. Those are the two countertrends I think will exist.
I think that's represented by Diageo. Dave Lewis has come in, he's doing half-strength main-category spirits and flooding retail with smaller bottles of spirits. Anywhere you can get people to keep having the same brand, but in different formats for different occasions. That's bang on.
We could talk about this all day. Could definitely drink some more of those cocktails.
Thanks so much for joining us. Next time we'll be doing God knows what, but it's going to be good. Thank you.